Mormonism Unvailed by Signature Books - Questions for Dan Vogel

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by Seattle Jon:

Signature Books recently re-published Mormonism Unvailed, generally considered the very first anti-Mormon book, with critical comments by Dan Vogel, an independent researcher, writer, and author on a number of works that include Joseph Smith: The Making of a Prophet. Signature provides this summary:

Howe’s famous exposé was the first of its kind, with information woven together from previous news articles and some thirty affidavits he and others collected. He lived and worked in Painesville, Ohio, where, in 1829, he had published about Joseph Smith’s discovery of a “golden bible.” Smith’s decision to relocate in nearby Kirtland sparked Howe’s attention. Of even more concern was that Howe’s wife and other family members had joined the Mormon faith. Howe immediately began investigating the new Church and formed a coalition of like-minded reporters and detractors. By 1834, Howe had collected a large body of investigative material, including affidavits from Smith’s former neighbors in New York and from Smith’s father-inlaw in Pennsylvania. Howe learned about Smith’s early interest in pirate gold and use of a seer stone in treasure seeking and heard theories from Smith’s friends, followers, and family members about the Book of Mormon’s origin. Indulging in literary criticism, Howe joked that Smith, “evidently a man of learning,” was a student of “barrenness of style and expression.” Despite its critical tone, Howe’s exposé is valued by historians for its primary source material and account of the growth of Mormonism in northeastern Ohio.

I hope the following interview generates some interest in this new book. Visit Signature Books to purchase this and other important titles they've published.

Seattle Jon: Why reprint Mormonism Unvailed?

Dan Vogel: Published in 1834, Mormonism Unvailed is rare and for many years students of early Mormon history have relied on poor photocopies, and because of its significance as the first book-length response to Joseph Smith and the many valuable documents it contains a scholarly edition is not only justified but long overdue.

SJ: Did E.D. Howe misspell the title of his book?

DV: Contrary to what many people assume, unvailed was the preferred spelling at the time.

SJ: Why was Howe interested in Mormons?

DV: Howe published a newspaper in Painesville, Ohio, located about ten miles east of the Mormon capital in Kirtland, which made the topic of Mormonism unavoidable, and even more so when his wife and sister became converts.

SJ: Howe's tone is one of bitterness - why should we listen?

DV: Howe’s tone is definitely critical, and at times sarcastic and disdainful, but that was generally the style of newspaper editors in that day. There was no pretence of being objective. One should be equally suspicious of believers. Historians use multiple sources to cut through bias, which is what I try to do in the footnotes that accompany this volume.

SJ: I found that the first half of Mormonism Unvailed is about the Book of Mormon and the second half is about affidavits. Which part do you feel is more important?

DV: I would say the affidavits of former neighbors and relatives of Joseph Smith are probably Howe’s most important contribution to Mormon studies.

SJ: The woodcut cartoon at the front of the book depicts a disguised Moroni with a monkey (the gold plates) in a box. Is there any earlier mention of Moroni as the modern caretaker of the gold plates?

DV: This was apparently the earliest published reference to Moroni as the caretaker of the plates. Oliver Cowdery was next in April 1835 in the Messenger and Advocate. See page 134 note 17.


Seattle Jon is a family man, little league coach, urban farmer and businessman living in Seattle. He currently gets up early with the markets to trade bonds for a living. In his spare time he enjoys movies, thrifting and is an avid reader. He is a graduate of Brigham Young University and the Japan Fukuoka mission field. He has one wife, four kids, two cats and four chickens.

Five Questions for William Morris about Dark Watch and Other Mormon-American Stories

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by Scott Hales:

William Morris is one of today’s great advocates for Mormon literature. Aside from founding and frequently contributing to the blog A Motley Vision, William is also a creative writer whose fiction addresses Mormon and non-Mormon subjects with depth, insight, and imagination. Recently, William published his first collection of Mormon stories, Dark Watch and Other Mormon-American Stories.

Here are William’s answers to five questions I had about the book…

Tell us about Dark Watch and Other Mormon-American Stories. What's the genesis of the project? How long have you been working on this collection?

A little over two years ago, I realized that I had enough stories that had been published in Mormon journals plus others that I had completed or would soon complete to make a collection of my Mormon-themed short fiction. At the time I had focused my writing more on (not-Mormon-themed) science fiction and fantasy, and this felt like a good project to serve as a coda to my work in the MoLit field. Wrap up in a neat package, put a bow on it and move on. I was interested enough in the idea to come up with a cover concept for it and then it sat for awhile until I finally convinced two family members who have professional-level editing experience to copyedit and from there it was simply a matter of creating the ebook files and setting up the accounts for Amazon, Nook, Kobo, etc.

And, as it turned out, in the process of putting the collection together, I found myself re-engaging with the issues and imagery and experiences that had caused me to write the stories in the first place, and so as much as I enjoy writing science fiction and fantasy aimed at the mainstream market and will continue to explore that part of my creative life, I'm actually not yet done with Mormon literature. I now look at it less as the end of my engagement with the field and more like the beginning of a new phase.

It's interesting that you call your stories "Mormon-American." What does that term—or label—mean to you and your fiction?

Questions for Jedediah S. Rogers, Author of The Council of Fifty, Published by Signature Books

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by Seattle Jon:

Signature Books recently published The Council of Fifty: A Documentary History, a compelling and interesting look into the operation of the Council of Fifty, the secretive and powerful group that worked for forty years to bring about Joseph Smith's political vision. We encourage you to buy it here for the book lover on your Christmas list. Signature provides this summary:

Mormon leader Joseph Smith had an ambiguous relationship with the United States government. He was fond of the U.S. Constitution but distrusted democracy, even "republican forms of government," because people could as easily turn against you as stand by you. Instead, he voiced approval of "theocracy," the church president heading a council of Mormons and non-Mormons who would oversee secular matters. He put his idea into practice in 1844 in Illinois by creating the secret Council of Fifty, saying it would replicate the "councils of the gods" in heaven. In the Great Basin the council oversaw everything from water rights to the regulation of hunting and grazing during the first few years in the valley. Among the council's more controversial practices was how it anointed its leader their temporal king. Whether it was fealty to king or fraternity generally that drove their emotions, the members felt an inseparable bond, writing about how they spent hours together in "sweet conversation." One council member described one of the meetings as "a long session but pleasant and harmonious," while another wrote that "much precious instructions were given, and it seems like heaven began on earth and the power of God is with us."

As I did with Signature's Cowboy Apostle and Lost Apostles, I've asked the author a few questions that came to mind as I read the book.

Seattle Jon: Why fifty? Why not twenty-four or ninety-nine?

Jedediah S. Rogers: Fifty seems to have originated with the purported 1842 revelation directing the organization of the council. The problem is that revelation has gone missing, if it ever existed. So this is speculation. Perhaps Joseph Smith had a thing for numbers: twelve, fifty, seventy. A round number, fifty, rolls off the tongue, alliterative. Beyond these considerations, I suspect Smith desired a body of men large enough to assume real-world governing responsibilities, so he organized it roughly the size of a typical legislative body. I think Smith had other considerations, too. He liked to bring folks together in a common purpose and to invest them in a cause. He used original inductees to launch his campaign for president. Conversely, Brigham Young considered the council too large and unwieldy; he preferred the streamlined efficiency of two counselors and the Twelve.

The council was not the only time groups of fifty were brought together to fulfill a task. On the trek west, the pioneer companies were divided into groups of ten, fifty, etc. In the early years in the Salt Lake Valley the council called "a company of fifty mounted men, to preserve the city and vicinity from Indian depredations," and Parley P. Pratt prepared a group of fifty men to explore the "country South," what we know as southern Utah.

SJ: Was the Council of Fifty a secret combination organization or a sacred organization? Or both?

JSR: Like temple rites, council rites seem to be cut from Masonic cloth. Upon initiation, new members received keywords (charge, name, and penalty), not unlike inductees to Masonic lodges. Many of the council's members also belonged to the anointed quorum. But it would be a stretch to refer to the council as a "sacred" organization, though meetings replicated some trappings of temple rites and were sometimes devotional. Benjamin Johnson, a council member, referred to it as Smith's "private council." Others often mentioned that the council discussed matters in confidence. Some of these were sensitive, not least the possibility of relocating—or, perhaps more likely, partially relocating—in the Republic of Texas or Mexico's "Upper California." Perhaps especially, Smith recognized that the theocratic nature of the council and its designs would raise eyebrows, even in nineteenth-century America.

Young became super sensitive to leaking council information, no doubt partly because the teaser in the Nauvoo Expositor about Smith being a "self-constituted monarch" was partly responsible for his death. In one 1849 meeting Young nearly comes unglued, and threatens violent retribution, when he finds "a member of the council had been guilty of divulging the secrets of this council." In the string of meetings held early that year, we see the first mentions of "blood atonement." I can see the impulse to keep those conversations secret. But at that time the council was the governing body in the Salt Lake Valley, passing laws and making public decisions, all in secret. It's a most curious chapter in Utah's political history.

An Interview with Jared Garrett, Author of Beyond the Cabin

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by Eliana:

Jared Garrett has recently published a YA novel titled Beyond the Cabin based on his own experiences growing up in a cult offshoot of Scientology. I've followed him over the years as he's gone through draft after draft, editorial hope and crushed dreams. I read the book, even though I don't read much YA, and found it interesting—especially when coming from an LDS author even though the church has no part of the book.

Eliana: Beyond the Cabin ends much earlier than I would have hoped. Why do you choose to end it then instead of after a successful escape?

Jared Garrett: Long answer to this, but it's at the heart of everything in this story. Please bear with me! Beyond the Cabin was a tough story to write. For one, it's sort of my story - particularly how I would have preferred to have handled my experience in the cult. Another reason it was challenging is because the story takes place over around 4-5 months, but it includes events that happened over a ten-year period, in a very different order too. So I had to find the right story to tell—the right arc for Joshua to travel as he comes to terms with his life and circumstances. But I also needed to make sure that the story was true to who he was and who I am.

The truth is I never escaped, per se. I did a lot to gain control of my personal, inner life and eventually by extension my destiny. From age 10 to age 13, I subsisted on fury and bitterness. I realized my temper was a mess, so I started studying the Dao and meditating. Through that, and honestly through some of the stuff the cult had us do, I found control over my emotions, eventually finding a way to switch them off. After gaining this control is when I started truly seeing the cult around me with open, clear eyes. At that point, I had for all intents and purposes escaped from their control. I didn't do punishments. I ignored tyrannical edicts. I let adults scream at me while I smiled at them.

Questions for Angela Hallstrom, Author of Bound on Earth

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by Scott Hales:

Few recent Mormon novels have received as much praise as Angela Hallstrom's Bound on Earth, which was first published in 2008 by Parables. (You can read my enthusiastic review here.) Because the book is being republished by Mormon fiction powerhouse Zarahemla Books, I sent Angela a few questions about the novel, the change in publishers, and the state of Mormon fiction today.

Here is what she had to say...

Scott Hales: Tell us a little of the history of Bound on Earth. I gather that it began as a series of short stories about the Palmer family. At what point did you begin to think of it as a novel?

Angela Hallstrom: During my MFA program I was focused primarily on short story writing. Near the end of my program I took a point-of-view class that was very influential, and in it we read a few novels-in-stories. I was taken with the idea of exploring one Mormon family using such a method. I wrote "Thanksgiving" in that class, which later became the first chapter of Bound on Earth and the foundational story around which Bound on Earth was built.

The novel has recently switched publishers. What motivated the move to Zarahemla Books? Have you made any revisions to the novel in tandem with the move, or is the novel essentially how it was when it was published by Parables?

I enjoyed working with Beth Bentley at Parables, but her husband and business partner, George, recently passed away, sadly. His passing precipitated some changes at Parables and I found that the rights to the novel reverted to me. I've worked with Chris Bigelow and Zarahemla—they published the short story anthology I edited, Dispensation: Latter-day Fiction—and I approached him, knowing the novel would be in good hands. I knew I'd be in good company, too: Zarahemla has published some of the best contemporary Mormon fiction in the last decade. No changes have been made to the novel itself, but I'm grateful that my partnership with Zarahemla helps keep the novel in print.

Questions for William Shepard, Author of Lost Apostles, Published by Signature Books

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by Seattle Jon:

Signature Books recently published Lost Apostles: Forgotten Members of Mormonism's Original Quorum of Twelve, a compelling and interesting look at six of the original twelve apostles of the restored church. Signature provides this summary:

Before the LDS Church was organized, Joseph Smith received a revelation telling him that twelve men would be called as latter-day apostles. Their assignment would be to warn men and women that the end was near. Although the determination of who would fill these positions was delayed for five years, when it finally happened, God reiterated that these men were to "prune the vineyard for the last time" because the Second Coming was nigh. In fact, "fifty-six years would wind up the scene," they were told. Of the twelve men selected, nine would eventually be pruned from the vineyard themselves, to varying degrees. Seven were excommunicated, one of whom was reinstated to his position in the Twelve. Of the other six, the subjects of this book, none returned to the apostleship and four never came back to the Church at all. Those who left faded into obscurity except for when they are occasionally still mentioned in sermons as cautionary tales. But two of them made their marks in other areas of society, John Boynton becoming a successful dentist, a popular lecturer, geologist, and inventor with dozens of important patents to his name, while Lyman Johnson became a prominent attorney and business owner. Even though Luke Johnson, Thomas B. Marsh, William McLellin, and William Smith became religious wanderers and tried unsuccessfully to adjust to life outside of the Church, their experiences were interesting and comprise valuable case studies in belief and disaffection.

Rather than attempt to duplicate what's already been done, read Cheryl L. Bruno's comprehensive and well-written review of Lost Apostles. For this post, as I did with Signature's Cowboy Apostle, I've asked one of the authors a few questions that came to mind as I read the book.

Seattle Jon: Why write Lost Apostles?

William Shepard: I have been a student of Mormon history for many years and have developed standards for myself in spite of my up-bringing. That is, as a Strangite, I was weaned on the belief the Brighamites and Josephites were wrong, and of course, James J. Strang and his fellows were beyond reproach. Having shed this attitude some fifty years ago, I developed the need to express Mormon history honestly. This has been shaped in part by church associates who blamed any inconsistency or bad press the Mormons under Joseph Smith and James J. Strang received on the Gentiles or apostate Mormons. This has been exasperated by visits to Mormon Church sites at Kirtland, Independence, Nauvoo and Carthage where "faith promoting" history was spoken and blessed with a testimonial prayer. Add to that, I respect authors who can honestly tell their Mormon story in a manner where human frailties are addressed openly and honestly.

SJ: Lost Apostles - the book's title - implies loss. What exactly has been lost?

WS: Lost, to me, means the Apostles became lost because of a faith promoting process dedicated to dehumanize early Mormons who could not endure to the end. Such a philosophy demanded they be presented as being weak or bad. Moreover, lost relates to why they became lost. The collapse of the Kirtland Safety Society reflects conditions which made some become lost. Others became lost due to Mormon militancy, others from the centralization of authority, and yet others from the failure of Zion's Camp. In essence, the Church dogma of Mormon exceptionalism made them lost.

Interview with Educator Mike Rose

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by Eliana:

A hundred or so years ago, I knew I wanted to be a teacher. My school experience had been all about boredom and I knew I wanted to do better. I was assigned Lives on the Boundary in a teacher prep class in college and it blew me away. My upper middle-class k-12 world was expanded; good thing, since my first teaching job was at an alternative high school in a border community.

In 2013 I read Mr. Rose’s newest book which again perfectly aligned to my teaching career. Back to School is about community college, vocational school—second chances all around. I reached out and had the privilege of interviewing Mike Rose for a column at The Chronicle of Higher Education. He was interesting and gracious and didn’t at all make me feel like a weird education research groupie, even though I am.

Why School? is a classic Mike Rose text that has just been reissued and expanded. While reading it, my highlighter was busy and I kept wanting to talk to someone about the ideas inside—ideas about what is really happening in public education, about equality, about testing: all the big issues that deserve more than a sound bite. So I emailed Mr. Rose, hat in hand, and he agreed to chat with MMM readers about education from the parent perspective.

Eliana: You say that "there is a powerful and concerted attempt assisted by mass media to portray public education as a catastrophic failure." I hear this time and time again, even as most of us are happy with the actual classroom experience our children are having. Is public education a failure? Who benefits from a belief that it is?

Mike Rose: Here’s a fascinating statistic from public opinion surveys. While many people believe that public schools in general are failing, a high percentage of those same people rate their local school as good to very good. This is not an uncommon pattern. It could reveal an unfounded preference for schools one sees as one’s own, or it could reveal a judgment based on more accurate local knowledge.

It is absolutely true that some of our schools are failing their students. These are typically schools that are in poor communities, are under resourced, and have a history of turnover in administrators and teachers. But many schools are doing a good job, and some are exemplary.

“Face it, the public schools have failed,” a bureau chief for a national news magazine tells me, offhandedly. A talk-radio host in L.A. actually said: “The kids in the Los Angeles Unified School District are garbage.”

Q&A with Keith Zafren, Author of How to Be a Great Dad

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by Pete Codella:

I recently heard about Keith Zafren and his quest to inspire and empower fathers to become great dads. He has a book aptly titled: How to Be a Great Dad.

I don’t know a father who wouldn’t buy-in to Keith’s message:

It doesn’t matter what kind of father you had, only what kind of father you choose to be, and through developing and fostering three core fathering practices: affirmation, acceptance and affection, fathers can become great dads.

Keith’s book focuses on the present but also deals with the past to teach, as Keith puts it, how to heal a father wound.

I recommend and encourage fathers and mothers alike to read Keith’s book.

After I finished the book I reached out to thank him for his efforts with The Great Dads Project. This question and answer article is the result of my email exchange with How to Be a Great Dad author Keith Zafren.

My Question: The difference between a parent’s approval and giving affirmation seems tricky. How do you prove to your kid you still love them, while letting them know that their behavior isn’t something you approve?

Keith’s Answer: This distinction is as tricky as it is important. The problem is that when most parents, and particularly dads, think they are expressing disapproval their children often experience rejection. That is, the child takes the disapproval personally. So even though a dad may think he is telling his daughter he doesn’t approve of something she is wearing, she may experience a feeling of rejection, believing that she (not her shirt) is not acceptable. This is why this distinction is so radically important for parents to understand and then make clear when they express disapproval.

Here’s the key: it’s fully expected and acceptable for a parent to disapprove of some behavior, choice, action, belief, style choice, preference, you name it. What is not okay is rejecting the child. It’s a fine line that many parents miss, to the detriment of the relationship and often the pain of the child. We have to make it clear to our children that we disapprove of something they’ve said or done, but we still love and accept them always, no matter what.

Questions for Elizabeth O. Anderson, Author of Cowboy Apostle, The Diaries of Anthony W. Ivins

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by Seattle Jon:

Signature Book recently published Cowboy Apostle, The Diaries of Anthony W. Ivins, the thirteenth documentary history in their Significant Mormon Diaries Series. As the first stake president of the Mormon Mexican colonies, Ivins' journals are a look at frontier Mormonism like no other. Ivins kept a stunning diary, offering a first-hand witness to the history many of us already know, extending from the famous Cluff expedition which set out to to find the lost Book of Mormon cities, to his attendance of the assassination of John D. Lee, his officiating post-manifesto plural marriages, or dealing with missionary suicides. Ivins was also posthumously inducted into the Cowboy Hall of Fame, an award that is seemingly out of character considering his position as a Mormon Apostle.

I was given an advance copy of Cowboy Apostle after running into the book's publicist, Tom Kimball, at the most recent Sunstone Northwest. The book was an interesting and compelling read, and I was thrilled when offered the opportunity to ask the editor, Elizabeth O. Anderson, a few questions. Here is what she had to say. Oh, and if the $125 limited edition price makes your heart race, you can buy the book on Kindle for $20.

Seattle Jon: Cowboy Apostle is a catchy title because the two words aren't often seen together. Tell us about the book's title and how it came about.

Elizabeth Anderson: I wanted a title that would encapsulate Ivins as a person, not just as a general authority. In many of his letters home to his wife while on his earlier mission to Mexico, he mentions just wanting to be home ranching and taking care of the family. It is my opinion that he would have been perfectly happy to just be a rancher in southern Utah his entire life. He seemed happiest on a camping or hunting trip. His diaries enumerate how many fish he caught, how many deer he saw and shot, etc., and he was always very solicitous towards his horses. A cattle rancher, he was a consummate outdoorsman. Also, his election to the National Cowboy Hall of Fame in 1958 influenced me--as I don't think any other apostle held that claim to fame--haven't checked that out, though.

SJ: I've always thought of journals as something men write, and diaries as something women write. Here, though, you are publishing Ivins' diaries. Help me out.

EA: I don't think journals/diaries are gender-based--they are more content based. A diary usually records thoughts and events on a daily basis in the "here and now"; whereas a journal often records the same things--but more retrospectively. For example, Ivins might record his travels on his mission to Mexico on a day by day basis, writing each night what happened that day. In his journal, he might record several days events under one dated entry. In Cowboy Apostle I make use of both his diaries and journals, the latter which were probably synthesized from memory or non-extant diaries at a later time.

SJ: Journals/diaries can be difficult to read because of the monotony/repetitiveness of entries. How do you suggest your book be read?

EA: I think taking advantage of footnotes is a tremendous help in reading the diaries. Many times they add information that builds upon what might be a cursory glance at an event recorded by Ivins. When Ivins is in the Twelve and the presidency, the diaries do bog down in areas in repetitive listings of who spoke and for how long -- but one needs to remember that Ivins was trying to give an accurate report -- similar to what a clerk would give. His one word or phrase descriptions offer glimpses of content, if not elaboration. I know everyone would like more detail, especially from his quorum meetings, but it is my understanding that the brethren at the time were counseled to not reveal detail in their diaries for fear sacred and confidential information would be compromised.

The Restoration as an Adventure: L. T. Downing Talks about Get That Gold! and Her Adventures of the Restoration Book Series

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by Scott Hales:

I first became acquainted with Lisa Torcasso Downing through her insightful posts and comments about Mormon literature and creative writing on Dawning of a Brighter Day, the blog of the Association for Mormon Letters. Later, I had a chance to teach her short story "Clothing Esther" in a class I taught on religious fiction at my university. While none of my students was Mormon, nearly all of them voiced appreciation for Lisa's story--which, in my opinion, is a great testament to her gifts as a Mormon writer.

Lisa has recently published two novels (see here and here) for children under the pen name L. T. Downing. The most recent, Get That Gold! (Zion BookWorks, 2013), is the first book in an ongoing series called The Adventures of the Restoration. Based on early Mormon histories like Lucy Mack Smith's biography of her prophet-son, the novel is about the Smith family's struggle to get the plates from the Hill Cumorah to the safety of their home--without Joseph getting waylaid by scheming men who want the gold plates for their own. It's a suspenseful children's novel that lives up to what any kid (or parent) would expect from an adventure story.

Since children's literature is not my forte, I enlisted the help of Connor, my book-addicted nine-year-old daughter, for this interview. We read the novel together--at 131 pages, it's a quick read--and then came up with questions for the author. 

Here is what Lisa--that is, L. T. Downing--had to say:

Connor Hales: How do you come up with ideas when you write your books?

L. T. Downing: The ideas for the Adventures of the Restoration series came because I love history and storytelling. I have read a lot of history books about the early days of the church, but those books were too boring to read to my own children. So I began telling them about the really amazing things that went on during the Restoration period. Next thing I knew, I was writing those stories down.

CH: When did you decide that you were going to become a writer?

LTD: I remember the moment I decided to be a writer like it was yesterday. I was four years old. When I was a baby, I never learned to crawl and a very famous baby doctor had written a book that claimed that babies who never crawl are likely to have trouble learning to read. My mother was worried I wouldn't be a good reader so she started teaching me as soon as I turned four. To her surprise, I took to it very quickly. One day I was sitting with her on the edge of my parents' bed, reading a story that had a big red can in it. My mom kept telling me there was no red can in the story. I got mad and kept pointing to the word. "C-A-N," I said. Then she pointed to the last letter and asked me to look again. Well, can you believe it? The word was spelled "C-A-R." The big red car. Not can. I was astonished that changing one little letter at the end of word could change the entire meaning. That's when my mom said, "When you grow up, you can go to college and study English. And if you want, you can become a writer." Bam! Decision made. At the age of four, I couldn't imagine anything more wonderful—and powerful—than creating meaning by arranging letters into words and words into sentences and sentences into books. I still think that.

"How Amazing to Picture These Things": Questions for Sarah Dunster, Author of Lightning Tree and Mile 21

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by Scott Hales (bio)

Last year, Cedar Fort published Lightning Tree, a coming-of-age historical novel about a teenage girl who is haunted by chilling memories from her past. Set in Provo shortly after the Mountain Meadows Massacre, the novel treads boldly through a era of Mormon history many of us know little about--and does so in a way that help us, as a people, begin to contemplate and come to terms with the parts of our past that hurt the most.

Recently, the author of Lightning Tree, Sarah Dunster, agreed to answer a few questions about this novel; her latest novel, Mile 21; and the challenges of creative writing. Here is what she had to say ...

Scott Hales: Let's say you’re in a room full of strangers and you're in the mood to brag. How do you introduce yourself?

Sarah Dunster: Thank you very much J Bragging is my favorite thing in the world to do …

Hmm. I think I'd probably start with stuff like, I have seven children, two are adopted from a foreign country, I've published poetry and fiction and I know how to make sushi, Ethiopian Injera and Dura Wat, and a mean veggie enchilada casserole. Oh. And I'm Young Women's president. Because if we're bragging, callings are the thing we should brag most about, right?

SH: You've written two novels, including Lightning Tree, which is one of the best Mormon historical novels I've read recently. What do you like about the novel form? How would you characterize the experience of writing a novel?

SD: Wow. Thank you for the compliment. I always feel a bit uneasy when people tell me they love my books, like … guys. Did you not *notice* the missing page break and the several misplaced commas? We're so critical of our own work.

But anyway. I think I'm just a natural novelist. I've written since I was a kid, and I never thought of writing anything but poetry and novels. I have tried to write short stories and I'm just not that great at it. I don't find my pace or characters until about 75 pages into my story. And then I have to go back and rewrite those 75 pages several times to get it to match where things started to flow. I'd have to write 75 pages of a story, do all those rewrites, then condense it down to the 10,000 or 5,000 or even 1,000 (thank you James Goldberg!) words. I figure I might as well write a novel if I'm going to go that far anyway. I love novels because I feel there is appropriate room for the intermingling of plot and character development. You really get to know characters in a novel. You can in a short story as well, but you don't spend as much time with them, and I'd argue that you are less loyal/caught up in their lives as a result.

An Interview with Pretty Darn Funny's Lisa Valentine Clark

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by brettmerritt (bio)

Author's disclosure: I have been friends with Lisa for more than 10 years. Our kids are friends. Her husband Chris (also a former MMM contributor) is my friend. We started The Thrillionaires improv group and continue to work on projects together. However, I am not involved with Pretty Darn Funny and approached this interview as professionally as I could. Enjoy!

Pretty Darn Funny (aka PDF), for the uninitiated, is a comedy web series about a married, stay-at-home-mom who starts an improv/comedy troupe to bring better entertainment to the people of her community. The series follows Gracie, played by Lisa Valentine Clark, and her troupe of vastly different characters through the often hilarious challenges of life. The show also features parody videos of pop culture such as mobile apps, Downton Abbey, Footloose, and The Hunger Games. Season one of the award winning series began in April 2012. Season two started airing in August of 2013 and can be viewed here, or on YouTube here.

Recently, I interviewed Lisa about her experiences with the series.

brettmerritt: When you were doing season one of Pretty Darn Funny, did you think there would be a season two?

Lisa Valentine Clark: I really did. When we were writing for it and planning for it we were always moving forward with, "You know in the second season we could do this and in the third season we could do this," so the whole time the producers, Jeff Parkin and Jared Cardon, and I were always talking about how it would be great if this could be something that goes on.

BM: How do you feel like season two is different from season one?

LVC: For season one, they asked me to play the role of Gracie and I was really excited. As I was preparing for it, I realized I had a lot in common with the character. So, they had me come to the writer meetings and contribute. And that was great because I had been wanting to write more sketch comedy. And, at that time, the writing of the series was set up as a class at BYU and the writing was done by a group of student writers and Jeff and Jared would edit. So when they brought me on and I started talking about my experiences with these young kids who weren't mothers, who weren't older than 22 or 23, I gave an entirely different perspective. It was fun. They were really funny and talented too and we had fun working together. So that's how the first season went.

In the second season, we hired writers. I was brought on as an executive producer with Jeff and Jared. That was really exciting for me. That changed my role because before I just had to worry about acting. Producing is an entirely different ball game. I was thrilled, because I love this project so much, to be more involved with the creating and managing of it. Then, we brought on a writing team this time because we had a different budget. So the writing team was made up of Jeff, Jared, and I as well as Adrian Cardon—Jared's wife—and Kacy Faulconer who used to teach writing at BYU, and Tom Quinn. We all are at different stages of parenting, we all have different perspectives, we all have a background in comedic writing, so it worked well. So, the producing and writing approach was different.

BM: What about the structure of the show? In season one, there's an arc of you coming together as a group. Do we continue the story in season two?

LVC: In the second season, the episodes are more stand-alone thematically and everyone is in a different phase of their life and we explore that. You know, how do women support each other coming from different perspectives? How can we still be there and cheer each other on? The big theme is that we shouldn't take ourselves too seriously and to try to find humor in things.

Rethinking Mormonism's Racial Narrative: Questions for Russell Stevenson

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by Scott Hales (bio)

Several books about the little-known, little-understood history of black Latter-day Saints have hit bookstores and e-readers this year, including two revised volumes of Margaret Young and Darius Gray's Standing on the Promises novel series (published by Zarahemla books) and W. Kesler Jackson's Elijah Abel: The Life and Times of a Black Priesthood Holder (published by Cedar Fort).

The latest from this group is Russell Stevenson's Black Mormon: The Story of Elijah Ables, which is now available for the Kindle. I had the chance recently to ask Russell a few questions about his book. Here's what he had to say:

Scott Hales: For those who don't know, who was Elijah Ables? What makes him an important figure in Church history?

Russell Stevenson: In some ways, this is the question. That he existed at all forces the Mormon people to revisit—and probably overturn—their assumptions about Mormonism's racial narrative.

Elijah Ables was an African-American man born in western Maryland. Census numbers suggest that he was a slave at one point, though we can't be certain of that. As a young man, he left Maryland and made his way to the river city of Cincinnati where he came into contact with Mormonism. He joined the Mormons in September of 1832 and went to Kirtland in 1836 where he was ordained an Elder. Later documentation suggests that he was ordained "under the hand of Joseph the Martyr" (Eunice Kinney, Letter to Wingfield Watson, July 5, 1885). He served a mission to Canada, lived in Nauvoo, served a prolonged mission in Cincinnati where was later ordained to be a Seventy. Ables was one of the highest ranking leaders in the branch. Ables came to Utah in 1853 and stayed committed to the faith for the remainder of his life.

SH: Generally, in Church histories, Elijah Ables is known as Elijah Abel. Why favor this less common variation of his name?

RS: This is perhaps the most commonly-asked question. The short answer is that "Ables" is the earliest documentary evidence of a signature (from a letter to Brigham Young) that can be credibly traced to Elijah's own person. There is later evidence—an invoice—that suggests an "Able" spelling. However, his name was spelled in every conceivable way in the nineteenth-century: Able, Ables, Abel, and Abels.

SH: What does Black Mormon reveal about Elijah Ables that other studies of his life do not? How does your research change what we know about the man and his work?

RS: The few works there have been on Elijah's life have been very "Mo-centric," relying exclusively on Mormon sources and placing him within a Mormon context. But no one has ever been so one-dimensional. My work suggests that Elijah was a socially agile figure--capable of navigating a number of contexts. Whether he lived in the urban black community of East Cincinnati, the runaway slave population of Upper Canada, or the heavily Yankee scene of northern Ohio, Ables had to work with a wide variety of social networks, each with distinctive values and cultural systems. There are government documents and contemporary correspondence illustrating how Elijah Ables helped the Saints escape a rebellion in Upper Canada. Some of the earlier works do not address Elijah's commitment to upholding the institutional church, even when he was clashing with some of its highest leaders.

10 Questions on the Challenge of Same-Sex Attraction

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The following is an anonymous guest post submission; a conversation between two friends about homosexuality and the LDS Church. Submit your own guest post via email.

1) When did you first begin to realize an attraction to men?

I was about ten years old when I first started having those teasing thoughts in my mind. But, I don't think my sex drive had kicked in yet, so it wasn't until my hormones started to go crazy a couple of years later that I really started to feel the attraction. I think the first time I noticed was during gym class in junior high school. There were two or three guys that I found myself attracted to. It was very strange and I was pretty horrified when it started to happen. I didn't quite know what to do except keep the whole thing to myself and try not to think about those guys. It was especially difficult in the locker room after class every day and so I attempted to suppress it because I knew that no one would understand; and not only wouldn't anyone understand, but they would react in an extreme way if I ever mentioned it.

2) Did you ever act on your feelings?

Well, as I said, I didn't know what to do with it for a few years. I mostly tried to suppress the feelings and temptations and tried to ignore them as much as possible. I was also trying to reconcile those sexual feelings with my own feelings about the Gospel and I thought that it would just be simpler to do nothing, rather than provoke further feelings of guilt and shame. I also think that I was so afraid of the whole issue - I was afraid of everything back then - that I would never have said anything to anyone about it, even if I knew that another person shared the same attraction as I did. It was terrifying.

But, I was a typical teenager and as I grew little older, I did imagine what it might be like to be gay and to be with other guys. However, even those early imaginings were accompanied by such strong feelings of guilt and shame that I simply couldn't think about them for very long because it was so confusing. I had been brought up to think that it was wrong even to have those feelings, and so I shoved it all deep down inside and refused to deal with it. I promised myself that I would never tell a living soul. It seemed the only way to survive.

"A Much Bigger Vision": Questions for Margaret Blair Young

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by Scott Hales (bio)

Recently, I sent Mormon novelist, filmmaker, and blogger Margaret Blair Young a list of questions about her current projects with Darius Gray--a revision of their Standing on the Promises novel series and the feature film The Heart of Africa--as well as her own work as a creative writer and president of the Association for Mormon Letters. Kindly, Margaret took time away from her busy schedule to answer them for me. 

I've split the Q&A into two parts. Answers to the questions relating to Standing on the Promises and The Heart of Africa are featured here on Modern Mormon Men. Margaret's thoughts on her work, Mormon literature, and the Association for Mormon Letters are featured on A Motley Vision.

Scott Hales: The original Standing on the Promises trilogy was published a decade ago—which doesn’t seem that long ago to me. Why did you and Darius choose to revise and expand them now?

Margaret Blair Young: We have realized that Mormons aren't our main audience. We learned that LDS readers, those who frequent Deseret Book, are looking more for a feel-good book than for the hard (but inspiring) history we tell. So we have revised for greater accuracy, to include new information, and to go about marketing not only to the LDS audience but to a wider one.

SH: You originally published the trilogy through Bookcraft, an imprint of Deseret Book. Why did you switch to Zarahemla Books for the new editions?

MBY: We have freedom to direct our publicity with Zarahemla, and far more freedom to get our books into places where people are yearning for new information. Black LDS history is American history which few know about. We consistently find that our black audiences are very receptive to our work. They are not threatened at all by it but grateful to learn the stories.

SH: Zarahemla Books is known for publishing “unorthodox but not apostate Mormon fiction.” Did that branding affect your approach to the new editions? Did publishing through Zarahemla Books allow you, in other words, to tell your stories in a way that you were unable to do under the Bookcraft label?

MBY: Honestly, we were looking for a press which would work well with us, treat us respectfully and with full honesty, and be with us to get our stories out. We're able to direct things in a more hands-on way with Zarahemla than elsewhere. The realization that these stories matter more outside the Mormon belt than within it is a big impetus for us. Of course we'll market within Utah, but we have a much bigger vision which goes beyond the LDS bookstores on the Wasatch Front.

"I Knew I Had a Great Book": Theric Jepson Talks About Byuck

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by Scott Hales (bio)

Theric Jepson's new novel Byuck should be required reading for BYU students, alumni, and basically everyone else who appreciates good fiction with a healthy dose of quirk. It recounts the adventures of David Them and Curses Olai, two BYU roommates who defy Brigham Young's call to "get married to a good sister, fence a city lot, [...] and make a home" by writing a rock opera with an unpronounceable name.

Theric recently was kind enough to answer my questions about Byuck, his first novel. He also offers some keen observations on the value of Mormon Art and why Billy Joel makes such an excellent punchline.

Scott Hales: I think we ought to get this question out of the way first: How do you pronounce Byuck?

Theric Jepson: As for me, I rhyme it with yuck, but I don't really feel it's my job to tell people how to pronounce it. I'm the numbskull who gave my novel a ridiculous name. Now I must live with the consequences.

SH: What is the origin story of Byuck? If I understand correctly, you wrote Byuck a while ago, but shelved it after you were told that is was basically unpublishable? Is that right?

TJ: I started Byuck as a play back in 1999. I had some problems developing it and shared what I had with one of my professors at BYU, Donlu Thayer. She liked what I had fine, but gave me some stellar advice. She told me I wasn't ready to write this story yet, that I needed some distance. So I set it aside.

I picked it up again sometime after I graduated in 2002 (by which time I was also married). By 2004 I had a working rough draft which Fob(of The Fob Bible) helped me polish.

My original plan was to try and sell the book outside the Mormon ghetto, but I did have a weird history with Deseret Book, so I decided to try them first. Which is where the comedy started.

"A Good Match": S. P. Bailey Talks About His Novel "Millstone City"

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by Scott Hales (bio)

S. P. Bailey's novel Millstone City was published by Zarahemla Books earlier this year. It's a thriller about Mormon missionaries in Brazil who have to run for their lives after one of them witnesses a murder. Recently, S. P. was kind enough to answer a few of my questions about the novel. What follows are his thoughts on crime fiction, missionary stories, and much more.

You can read the first chapter of Millstone City here or buy the book for Christmas through Zarahemla Books.

Scott Hales: Millstone City combines two things we usually don’t put together: crime fiction and Mormonism. What are some of the challenges that come with making that combination work?

S. P. Bailey: I read recent crime fiction. I usually enjoy it. My book could have been coarser or more violent, and some would probably say it should have been. If you were raised a good Mormon boy (I was) and you are an active, believing Mormon (I am), it is probably impossible to write crime fiction — particularly with Mormon characters — without wondering Is this demeaning to people in general? To my people? Thoughts like that probably helped shape Millstone City. It is about murder and human trafficking and Brazilian crime culture in the slums and prisons. But I think it maintains a certain dignity in its approach to individual characters. Some might put Millstone City down as old-fashioned. Depending on the context, I might take old-fashioned as a compliment. That being said, I think things like violence and coarse language can be surface issues. If you dig deeper, crime fiction is usually very moral. Good and evil exist there in completely non-abstract, concrete terms. Readers know it when they see it. They want the innocent to escape and survive. They want the detective to impose justice. They want evil vanquished and the universe set aright. In that sense, despite the potential surface issues, I think crime fiction and Mormonism are a good match.

SH: Can you trace the literary DNA of Millstone City? What other works influenced the novel?

SPB: I don't know about "literary DNA!" I didn't have any particular works in mind when writing Millstone City. I suppose the best I can do is give you a short list of things I admire that might have influenced Millstone City. I love the great American crime/noir authors: Raymond Chandler above all, but also Dashiell Hammet, James M. Cain, Cornell Woolrich, and others. I grew up watching and rewatching old Hitchcock movies. I also love Brazilian films like Central Station and City of God.

SH: Of all the characters in Millstone City, Luz is my favorite. What do you think she brings to the novel?

SPB: I like Luz too. While lots of characters in the novel display humanity (the elders, the detectives, Heitor), she is not self-interested in what she does. And, despite her obvious limitations, I think she exudes a Brazilian sort of charm: bold, big-hearted, funny ... it pained me to write her last scenes in the book.

SH: How did you research the novel? Do you have first-hand experience with Brazilian prisons, for example?

SPB: I served a mission in northeastern Brazil in the 1990s. I came home in love with Brazil, warts and all. Millstone City is a kind of love letter to Brazil — particularly the region where I served. I enjoy Brazilian music, movies, books, magazines, and newspapers when I can (not often enough!). I've never seen the inside of a Brazilian prison — not in person anyway. I became interested in Brazilian prisons when, as a missionary, I taught a few discussions to a Brazilian prison guard. His stories amazed me. They were told in the spirit of never, ever, no matter what, should guys like you do anything that would land you in a Brazilian prison. If it is possible to get even more straight-laced than a couple of Eagle Scouts from Utah in short-sleeved white shirts and neck ties preaching the gospel, this guy scared us there. Subsequently, I read various things about Brazilian prisons (articles in newspapers and magazines, reports published by human rights groups, etc.).

Also, as a trial attorney, I represent inmates and their families in civil rights litigation arising from incidents in U.S. prisons and jails (among other things). While my professional life has taught me nothing about Brazilian prisons in particular, I think there is something of that experience in Millstone City.

Giveaway 19: Connor Boyack's Latter-day Responsibility

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Connor Boyack is a web developer, political economist, social media consultant and author of the upcoming book Latter-day Responsibility, a prequel/sequel to the popular Latter-day Liberty. Connor views MMM's readers (or was it founders, can't remember) as largely irresponsible so would like to giveaway one of his books to help remedy the situation (okay, it was founders).

For this giveaway, Connor is generously providing one reader with a signed copy of his book, Latter-day Responsibility. Connor also humored us by answering some questions (some serious, some less so) below the giveaway guidelines.

Giveaway Guidelines:
You have THREE chances to enter. Each entry requires a separate comment.
1. Leave a comment on this post.
2. Like MMM on Facebook or share this post on Facebook. Leave a comment letting us know you did.
3. Follow MMM on Twitter or share this post on Twitter. Leave a comment letting us know you did.

• 7 days to enter (closes Sunday, November 11th at midnight).
• Winner announced Tuesday, November 13th.
• Can't wait? Buy the book now.

Q: Tell us briefly about your new book, Latter-day Responsibility.

In many ways, this new book is a prequel to Latter-day Liberty, released last December. In that book I primarily discussed liberty in the context of what the government should not do. In Latter-day Responsibility, I discuss liberty in the context of what we should do. Liberty cannot exist without a foundation of personal responsibility; to the extent that we do not take care of ourselves and those around us, then people will cry out for the state to take care of us for ourselves.

So this is a step back after the first book to understand something more fundamental, and recognize that if we want to promote liberty, limited government, etc., then as trite as it sounds, it begins with us. My book dedicates a chapter to each of several personal responsibilities that I believe we must individually and collectively fulfill if we're to have a shot at reducing the size and scope of the state.

"Our Century Needs Alternatives": James Goldberg on "The Five Books of Jesus"

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by Scott Hales (bio)

Chances are, you've read the stories of Jesus. Or, if you haven't, you've heard them in church, seen them in movies, watched them on television or Broadway, read them in comic books, reenacted them with action figures, or witnessed them live at Christian theme parks.

The stories of Jesus are everywhere. So why do we need another book about the life of Jesus? James Goldberg, author of the novel The Five Books of Jesus, answers that question.

Scott Hales: First, I’d like to clear up a matter. Were you or were you not the guy who told Joseph and Mary that there was no room in the inn? Be honest.

James Goldberg: I am indeed ... in the Church's Bible videos. I show up three times in the New Testament series: as an innkeeper who shakes his head at Joseph, as an innkeeper the wise men ask for directions, and as the innkeeper who helps the Good Samaritan. Last time I left the set, the director said, "We'll give you a call if we need another innkeeper." I like to think of it as a family business.

SH: Tell us about The Five Books of Jesus. Why this book at this time in your writing career?

JG: On its surface, The Five Books of Jesus is a lyrical novelization of Jesus’ ministry. On another level it’s a meditation on “the kingdom of God” as a radically alternative way of relating to others. It’s about people who are willing to follow a visionary out past the edges of their expectations and toward a promised land they’re not completely sure how to imagine or understand.

Why this book now? Because in its own way, our century needs alternatives every bit as badly as Peter’s century did. We need another chance to consider what stories of Jesus might mean to us today.

Mormon Soup Interview: Joanna Brooks

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by Scott Heffernan (bio)

In part 1 we discuss Joanna's appearance on The Daily Show, her new book—The Book of Mormon Girl, and what it means to be an unorthodox Mormon.



In part 2 watch Joanna struggle to answer who she finds more attractive—Mitt Romney or Jon Huntsman. We also learn her favorite hymns and TV shows.



• Buy The Book of Mormon Girl: A Memoir of an American Faith
• Joanna Brooks interview on The Daily Show - Part 1 & Part 2
• Book of Mormon Girl goes to the Daily Show! Inside Edition
• JoannaBrooks.org
• If you're in Salt Lake, go see Joanna at Sam Weller's Books in Trolley Square on Thursday, Aug 23rd at 7:00 p.m.